moto gp - hayden crash

[Biker Dude]

has anyone got a vid of the crash from estoril?? I missed and heard so much about it i wanna see it now...

Cheers, Jay

[stu600cc]

there you go pal trusty old you tube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TlxbP3vtXk

[Shorty]

Pedrosa is a complete f***! why why why????!!!! first time ive seen it too!

[stu600cc]

Tell me about it there was no need i think it was cos hayden done it the lap before but was much safer


Complete twat!!!!!!!!!!!

[bikerchick46]

It makes me feel sick thinking about it.

[Shorty]

and thats why people hate him! he even sed he dont care what people think! what a thank you to the few fans he may have had!

[bikerchick46]

I have no respect fro pedrosa anymore, he is a great racer, but seems extremely selfish.

[Lateshift]

selfish? :D :D

no team orders, every chance of still being in the running for the title,

but less than a seasons worth of racing with the big boys,

i am not a big fan of him, but it was hardly deliberate was it ffs :D

why run yourself off the circuit so early in the race when you have all that riding on it?

impetuous maybe, but not selfish by any stretch of the imagination.

Or i suppose the other crashes that happened on the same corner on each lap before that one were all selfish too? ;)

3 riders had already binned it on that corner, all doing the same thing, going in too hot, watch the video again and you will see that the only thing that went against Pedrosa in that corner was the fact that he clipped the brickwork and it lifted the front end of his bike off the ground, yes he went in a little too hot, but so did Haydon a lap earlier, he was only doing what racers do (take chances ;) )

Again, i am not a big fan of him, he has had a bit of a jump into the big boys scene and has very little personality or charisma (and also next to no track time too on some of the circuits as the 250's dont visit all of them ;) ) but realistically with a little bit more time under his belt in that class you are looking at a future world champion ;)


However in the interests of keeping this light hearted ;)

http://www.mick753.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pedrosamastercardne1.jpg

[Biker Dude]

cheers mate...

to me that's inexperiance and excitement gettin the better of him...but hey ho, that's racing i guess

[bikerchick46]

Excuse me, saying pedrosa is 'selfish' is my opinion and although you may not agree with it, that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

[Lateshift]

Of course its an opinion, and whether or not i agree again is my choice, however at least i chose to actually substantiate my opinion by givng my reasons for it.

How did you come to your conclusion that he was selfish? was it because the poor little mite robbed you of your chance to see Mr Haydon on the cover of next years Motogp calender or something?

Anyone with an ounce of sense or actual love of the sport would realise that there is too much at stake this far into the season to deliberately punt your team mate out of the race at the expense of yourself, especially when you still have a chance of winning it yourself.

Quite how selfish comes into it i dont understand, he has to earn a living and he has to do it by finishing as high up as possible, not just for the teams sake, but also his personal sponsorship, his future deals etc.

Did you watch the interview with Nicky Haydon? he knows that Danny wouldnt have done it intentionally, there isnt anyone in the race scene that thinks it was deliberate, they all put it down to track frustration, he needed to get past Nicky to try and get points himself, Honda had no team orders and let them get on with it, if it had been another rider he has pushed off nothing would have been said apart from the fact that he would have been protecting Hayden's position or something but thats okay then isnt it? ;)

Lastly Rossi has made just as many errors like this and become a racing hero,

My opinion is that its a one man sport once you are on the bike and with a chance of winning the championship, if it wasnt then Pedrosa would have been ordered to stay behind Hayden at all costs and protect him from the likes of Capirossi who also had a a chance at that stage.

You take your chances and you pay the price, and whilst i he might be saying he isnt bothered by it, i am betting (speculation of course) that he is genuinely regretful about it all, probably not for punting Hayden off because thats racing and mistakes happen, but very likely for not finishing the race and getting some points ;)



Back to your opinion i suppose, again of course you are entitled to it, but i have reason for mine ;)

[bikerchick46]

Thank you for the patronising essay.

Last week Pedrosa realistically didn't have a chance of winning the championship. The corner at which he tried to overtake Hayden was too narrow, and consequently it was a ridiculous place to try and overtake - as pointed out by the commentators. Pedrosa probably didn't knock Hayden off his bike on purpose, but he shouldn't have put himself in that position in the first place. To try and overtake your teammate, who is leading the championship, in a dangerous place on the track, is in my mind, and I'm sure many others, an extremely selfish act - which I don't think Hayden will ever forgive him for. Obviously Hayden can't give an interview saying, 'Pedrosa is a ****ing twat, who's ****ed up my only chance of winning the championship.' Instead he has to say that it is 'racing' and all this jammy ****, when he is probably raging inside.

Now Hayden will most likely come second this year instead of first - which is largely due to Pedrosa of course. yes Rossi has had his fair share of bad luck this season, but I have no doubt in my mind that colin edwards would never put himself in a position to jeopardise his teammate's chances in such a critical stage in the championship. It's just not racing etiquette is it.

[Lateshift]

Patronising it certainly wasnt meant to be but seeing as you have bothered to actually reason your opinion i will expand slightly on mine (and add a bit more of a slant on it for you).

Edwards, well where can you start, in Superbikes he was a fantastic racer, but this season he wasnt expected to win the championship for Yamaha, Rossi was again, thats why its not until Valencia that Yamaha are actually giving him a chance to ride the same spec bike as Rossi, i dont doubt that Edwards would have ever have jeopardised Rossi's chances in the same way, simply because Yamaha probably have team orders, much the same way as Honda had team orders across the board in British Superbikes and that no Honda was allowed to knock Kiyonari into fourth position in the last race ;)

I have already stated that Pedrosa showed a lack of experience trying to get into that gap, but bear in mind (and i suppose its slightly more difficult if you dont ride yourself) that mistakes can take a split second on a street bike let alone a race bike that is travelling that fast into a corner, and mistakes happen, it could be argue that whilst he didnt have the line into that corner, he didnt anticipate that Hayden (who had actually left a git of a gap there at first) shut the door on him unexpectedly or else why would he have perceived there to be a chance of slipping through? again it could be argued that he underestimated the speed he was carrying into the corner (again showing a slight lack of experience), but chances are there to be taken all the same and you saw Rossi stitch Elias up inside the chicane of all places last week, and also Bayliss pull out what everyone at the time thought was an almost impossible move on Corser and Toesland at the last race of the WSB too.

Racing is all about opportunities, braking later than someone else, accelerating earlier than someone else and above all taking chances that others arent prepared to take.

Thats how Rossi has done so well, he tries to pull off moves that everyone thinks wouldnt be possible.

Hayden as you put it isnt likely to publicly slate young Pedrosa, and i dont doubt he would have been told to keep his mouth shut by Honda to save face for HRC, but as a dirt bike rider at heart he would know all about punting people off the track because in that sport its a common tactic and widely accepted,

Racing is just that, i didnt disagree with the sentiment behind it, but i just dont think you can label someone taking a chance as selfish, he had a big burden to carry this season in his rookie season, everyone is expecting him to do well (much the same as Stoner too) and you have to deliver or the critics are straight on your back, damned if you do, damned if you dont etc.

Hayden isnt championship material, Pedrosa is and Honda will know that but for him to progress you have to make mistakes to be able to learn, i believe it was nothing more than an inexperienced mistake myself.

And just because Hayden had more of a chance (i have to disagree about your theory that Pedrosa not being in the running, statistically he could have still won the championship because he was only 34 points behind the leader Hayden, had he won it, then it would have been a full on 3 horse race at Valencia (thats if Hayden didnt finish ;) ) does it mean that it was right for Hayden to have tried exactly the same move on Pedrosa only one or two laps earlier and barge him out of the way????

[bikerchick46]

I appreciate your opinion, but I strongly stand by mine.

Basically the whole incident has made HRC look a laughing stock and I feel deeply sorry for Hayden - especially when people are always on at him, saying he isn't championship material, which is a load of rubbish (in my opinion :laugh2 ). He had a chance to prove everyone wrong, and now because of the over eager pedrosa, will unlikely win the championship. It would have been great for someone else to win it apart from Rossi, but he's bound to win it now.

I don't think HRC have treated Hayden well, but I suppose with them he has the best chance of winning.

Hopefully Pedrosa will knock Rossi off next week :laugh1

[Lateshift]

Well we could argue that Hayden is championship material till it gets dark but one fact remains is that whilst Hayden has done well this year, he has done it only by staying on the track and getting podium finishes, Rossi on the other hand has failed to finish a few races, and yet still manages to have 5 victories to his 4 and is showing how a true champion carries on regardless, most had written Rossi off a month or two ago.

(okay the little spat between Hayden and Pedrosa has opened things up a bit, but going on the statistics, lap per lap and race per race, Rossi has actually achieved more with less track time ;) )

Statistics dont lie, Pedrosa has Motogp pedigree in both 125cc having won the world title once and also in 250cc too where he won that twice, what has Hayden done and yet he has been on the GP bike since 2003 as team mate to Rossi, in effect he should now be using the number 1 bike from Honda, a bike that even Rossi himself thought would be unbeatable due to the grip Honda had on the technology of motogp bikes ;)

If he was championship material he would done a lot more in Rossi's first year with Yamaha, again a bike everyone expected to be a complete flop, what did Rossi do? won on it on his first race with it ;)

A great racer he is, i dont think it could be argued but even Hayden knows that this season has been his best chance, probably one of few chances he will ever get to be so competitive, but a champion he is not ;)

[The Guvnor]

By jove. I have to say....this is a very interesting discussion.....well done the both of you.:reading

[The Guvnor]

Having just seen the clip.....I have to say, it was a nasty crash but it was by no means intensional. All he was doing was trying to gain a position and tbh there was enough room to slide through. It just so happens that the front washed out. Unfortunate.....but that is racing ! As lateshift pointed out ....no team orders.....so race on, each man for himself and all that. They may be on the same team but they were both riding there own race. It wouldnt be a race if no chances were taken and tried.;)

[Tark]

Just watched the Video and i dont think it was the worst passing attempt ever. I would love for Hayden to win the championship. I saw the pass developing as Pedro moved across and he seemed to hit a bump on the way in and caused him to go down. If he was a decent guy I guess he would have admitted it was a mistake and was sorry. If he doesn't then i guess it makes Danny a bad team player.

Racing is racing. If you weren't selfish you would never win. But you need to keep a cool head. Something that has caused me to crash in the past. Its only when your too commited you decide you cant make it and there is nothing you can do.

[stu600cc]

I dont like pedrosa even since 125's and 250's he doesn't know how lucky he is.

Pedrosa took him out! fair enough he had a gap but was going to fast to make it he clipped the rumble strip which made him go down i do argree with Lateshift on one thing that he is ineperienced and made a mistake thinking he could stuff it up the inside of Hayden cos Hayden had done it the lap before

(two pence)

[bikerchick46]

Pedrosa is a complete ****er basically!

[Lateshift]

But big enough to admit that he will actually be riding at the weekend to defend Hayden and try to help him get the title, which means you wont see him pushing for a win ;)

[bikerchick46]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see . . .

[Lateshift]

I think he will have no choice at the weekend this time, from what i have read there is definite team orders for this one :D

nawty Danny, nawty Danny :D

[troutslayer]

i dont think u can really call pedrosa 'inexperienced'... the lad has a wealth of riding experience under his belt. remember, he is a WORLD CHAMPION.

Hayden, sure, he has done well this season... if he wins the championship, good for him. but is he a true champion??? in my opinion, he is not an inspiring rider. that's not to say he's not a good rider, because he is! just not... inspiring... i think he'll get to ride in 2007, then become a HRC development rider.

danny p... future motogp world champ?? almost certainly. but again... not very inspiring.

tony elias?? hmmm, i dont think he's destined for the top, but i'm sure he's going to have more flashes of brilliance in the future which will make him more talked about than danny p.

casey stoner! if only he'd stayed on the bike more often!! he HAS impressed me this year! ZERO pre season testing and got in with the action up the sharp end right away. go casey :)

rossi... an absolute inspiration! win or not this season, he never badmouthed anyone, (been seen to be) completely sporting and congratulating his competitors on their wins etc. a true champion???? absolutely. an ambassador of the sport?? oh yes! ask a non bikesport fan who max biaggi is, and they probably wont know (and lets bear in mind max was a world champ in all 3 classes as well). Ask them who rossi is, and theres a darn good chance they'll know!


oh, lets not forget to cheer on young bradley smith in the 125's as well :)

[stu600cc]

oh, lets not forget to cheer on young bradley smith in the 125's as well :)


I cheer him every race he's doing well lets hope Honda UK get the funding for the team they wanna set up

Go Bradders

[zdex9r]

well guys, just read all your comments from start to finish. briliant debate.
My tuppence worth is that this is racing ffs. Team orders SHOULD NOT exist full stop.
do we really want to go down the route of F1? With in car radios telling the drivers exactly whats happening behind them?

Perdrosa stuffed up. full stop. But havent others? Rossi is god, but what about the shunt with Sete last year? plus many many others this year. Its racing, how do the guys know how good they can be without pushing the limit and trying??

This is backed up by the moves Elias was putting on everyone with the insanely and brave late braking, even Rossi was truly amazed by Elias's late braking.

Everyone, including commentators thought he would crash. If he had, everyone would have said he was stupid and no way he could have pulled the move off, but as it happens he did it again and again and then one. Massively audacious and brave moves.

Thats racing. Stop whinning Hayden. Sh*t happens. Would have been nice for Pedrosa to publicly apologise immediately though.

[[gets off soap box now...]

Roll on this weekend. it gonna be a right scrap. Al honda out to get Rossi

[fall off]

well said that man. .:clap :clap