rspca petition

[DJMCJERICO]

A petition to the Prime Minister (smiliey tw@) to Hold a
public enquiry into the polices and running of the RSPCA.

If your not up on the rspca it's about them wanting more rights than the police, at the moment they have no rights and normally con themselves into peoples house's with lines like "your not under arrest", "Your under investigation" bla bla, and also they are against the keeping of companion animals although it's not made common knowledge as they will loose £3 a month from all the little old lady's that are sucked in.

Most of you will of heard of the rspca trying to prosecute a policeman for causing unnecessary suffering because he put a cat out of it's misery after if had been run over.

If they gain this power they will be able to enter your house and take your pets without a warrant or proper cause.

As a private keeper of non venomous reptiles for the past 11 years this worries the hell out of me that some tree hugger that knows diddly squat can come into my home and take away my pets.

For more info on the pet@ side of the rspca have a look at http://www.focas-uk.info/


To sign the petition please go to http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/rspcainquiry/

[r6paul]

I visited the offices of the RSPCA today. It's tiny, you couldn't swing a cat in there

[The Guvnor]

:grin1 that made me larrrrf !:grin2

[The Guvnor]

On a serious note........
If your pets are being looked after properly then they would have no reason to come to your house anyway ! Cant see a problem.......and before you say it................yes...............Ive got a dog;)

And what makes you think all RSPCA officers now diddly squat ? My uncle was a vet......retired......and started working for..............you guessed it............the RSPCA.............think that qualifies him enough in my book, sure he not the only one either.:laughboun

[2E]

A petition to the Prime Minister (smiliey tw@) to Hold a
public enquiry into the polices and running of the RSPCA.

If your not up on the rspca it's about them wanting more rights than the police, at the moment they have no rights and normally con themselves into peoples house's with lines like "your not under arrest", "Your under investigation" bla bla, and also they are against the keeping of companion animals although it's not made common knowledge as they will loose £3 a month from all the little old lady's that are sucked in.

Most of you will of heard of the rspca trying to prosecute a policeman for causing unnecessary suffering because he put a cat out of it's misery after if had been run over.

If they gain this power they will be able to enter your house and take your pets without a warrant or proper cause.

As a private keeper of non venomous reptiles for the past 11 years this worries the hell out of me that some tree hugger that knows diddly squat can come into my home and take away my pets.

For more info on the pet@ side of the rspca have a look at http://www.focas-uk.info/


To sign the petition please go to http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/rspcainquiry/

So wheres the petition FOR the RSPCA??:clap

I think they are right to prosecute the policeman who put the cat 'out of its misery'.. now if my knowledge is right, the policeman went and got a shovel did he not, and smashed the cat repeatebly over the head until it was dead.:shooter

Now, ok poor cat was suffering and that, but the bloke did it in broad daylight with kids, people, and motorists all watching..:shooter

So yeah, i think the RSPCA is right.. and if your treating your animals correctly, then the RSPCA would have no reason to visit your house.:grin1

An RSPCA Inspector is the job ive wanted since i was 11 years old, and i still havent changed my opinion on the RSPCA from then or now.:grin2

I am a member of many of the animal charitys including the RSPCA, WWF, WSPA, PETA, And PDSA and i respect pretty much everything these charities set out to ban e.g. Fox Hunting.:reading

I see no reason why the RSPCA should not get more rights... they should be equal if not better than the police force anyway..

If i can find the link i will show you a video that i was sent from one of my charities, it was a video showing the 'fur trade' something every animal charitie is out to ban, so whilst your worrying about the fact that the RSPCA might get enough power to come into your house to take away some animals (are you doing something wrong? if not then they wont!) poor animals are being skinned alive for fashion accessories, and right under your nose, some of this even gets done in old factories in london (yes its true), but without these rights, the rspca are powerless even though they KNOW such things are going on and WHERE they are doing it.

[harriebird]

Dan, just out of interest, what do you mean by a companion animal, what's that?

[DJMCJERICO]

The rspca want to ban the keeping of every animal as pets although they are focusing on exotics animals at the moment as they will loose support if they make it public that they are against the keeping of cats and dogs.


Tooey I am not worried about an rspca inspector coming to my house, as soon as they insinuate that they have police powers they will be arrested by me under common law and reasonable force will be used where possible, they should be worried about coming to me, then the police can inspect my property with and independent body.


Most rspca officers are in it for the animals, others are in it for a different reason, because they are against people keeping pets and will take your animals at any opportunity they get.

The police officer did right imo, a cat was run over and it's inside were spilling out of it's stomach, he put it out of it's misery with one hit with a shovel and more to make sure the job was done. The rspca kept trying to prosecute him for causing unnecessary suffering.

How many dogs and cats do they put down every Tuesday because they can't find homes for them!

Have a look on the focus link and at the bottom left hand corner you will find the transcript of the rspca and the dead cat, it may change your view of them.

[harriebird]

i'll keep my support up for the Retired Greyhound Trust then i think.....:rolleyes:

[Lateshift]

Its a bit of a mixed one this really, i certainly dont see any harm in killing a cat that is beyond medical care after being hit by a car, i wouldnt want to see the animal in any further pain, but i am betting plenty of people have hit an animal in their car and just carried on down the round without thinking about it.

Its no different than taking your pet to a VET, being told its going to cost £1000's to give it the best help they can, and yet if you cant afford it they put the poor thing to sleep, and yet you dont see the RSPCA campaigning for free medical treatment of all animals especially if their attitude suggests that animals should be treated "humanely".

As far as the pets go though, do we really have the right as a society to "breed" animals specifically for companion purposes? (dont get me wrong we have two cats at home, i have had dogs myself too) but does that mean we actually have the right as humans to keep an animal?

For the most part i think the RSPCA do a good job, i have often thought that its the sort of job i wouldnt have minded doing (but in truth i think i would land myself in court after attending my first animal cruelty case), but by the same token they arent the Police, they arent purely there to uphold animal regulations for the country and to investigate bad practice and cruelty towards animals, its always been fine in the past that if they had good grounds to visit and remove an animal the Police assisted, to me it seems like they want to be a Police force now in their own right.

perhaps they should stick to doing what they do best and leave the people that deal with the criminal side of life to get on with their job instead of trying to crucify someone who obviously thought they were acting out of humanity ;)

[The Guvnor]

The rspca want to ban the keeping of every animal as pets although they are focusing on exotics animals at the moment as they will loose support if they make it public that they are against the keeping of cats and dogs.


Tooey I am not worried about an rspca inspector coming to my house, as soon as they insinuate that they have police powers they will be arrested by me under common law and reasonable force will be used where possible, they should be worried about coming to me, then the police can inspect my property with and independent body.


Most rspca officers are in it for the animals, others are in it for a different reason, because they are against people keeping pets and will take your animals at any opportunity they get.

The police officer did right imo, a cat was run over and it's inside were spilling out of it's stomach, he put it out of it's misery with one hit with a shovel and more to make sure the job was done. The rspca kept trying to prosecute him for causing unnecessary suffering.

How many dogs and cats do they put down every Tuesday because they can't find homes for them!

Have a look on the focus link and at the bottom left hand corner you will find the transcript of the rspca and the dead cat, it may change your view of them.

PANTS !!!!
Firstly..... how many RSPCA officers do you know ?

Secondly..were did you get this info from ?

Thirdly.....I very much doubt they will be given full police powers, but they should have the power to enter a premises if they think an animal is being mistreated !

And fourthly (if thats a word :grin2 )

If you look after your animals correctly WHY would you have a problem with them being inspected by the RSPCA ? If there is no problem then there is nothing to worry about surely ? And.....if they have the powers given to them that you are suggesting they probably have more chance of arresting you first for being a doughnut and putting up a fight for no reason !!!!:reading

We are meant to be a nation of animal lovers........and if there is a more efficient way of ending animal cruelty them go for it..........the only people that need to worry are those commiting the offence. You wont get me signing it.........Ive got nothing to hide:clap

[the captain]

The rspca want to ban the keeping of every animal as pets although they are focusing on exotics animals at the moment as they will loose support if they make it public that they are against the keeping of cats and dogs.


Tooey I am not worried about an rspca inspector coming to my house, as soon as they insinuate that they have police powers they will be arrested by me under common law and reasonable force will be used where possible, they should be worried about coming to me, then the police can inspect my property with and independent body.


Most rspca officers are in it for the animals, others are in it for a different reason, because they are against people keeping pets and will take your animals at any opportunity they get.

The police officer did right imo, a cat was run over and it's inside were spilling out of it's stomach, he put it out of it's misery with one hit with a shovel and more to make sure the job was done. The rspca kept trying to prosecute him for causing unnecessary suffering.

How many dogs and cats do they put down every Tuesday because they can't find homes for them!

Have a look on the focus link and at the bottom left hand corner you will find the transcript of the rspca and the dead cat, it may change your view of them.

PANTS !!!!
Firstly..... how many RSPCA officers do you know ?

Secondly..were did you get this info from ?

Thirdly.....I very much doubt they will be given full police powers, but they should have the power to enter a premises if they think an animal is being mistreated !

And fourthly (if thats a word :grin2 )

If you look after your animals correctly WHY would you have a problem with them being inspected by the RSPCA ? If there is no problem then there is nothing to worry about surely ? And.....if they have the powers given to them that you are suggesting they probably have more chance of arresting you first for being a doughnut and putting up a fight for no reason !!!!:reading

We are meant to be a nation of animal lovers........and if there is a more efficient way of ending animal cruelty them go for it..........the only people that need to worry are those commiting the offence. You wont get me signing it.........Ive got nothing to hide:clap

not wanting to stir things up anymore, but i think the main point DJ was trying to raise is that (and if im reading it right) is that the RSPCA want to ban people having animals period. Not just to come to your house if youre mistreating them.

Its a fair point that you wouldnt be investigated unless there was a reason. I should think theres no issue with that, but it seems from what ive read so far, there is an oppinion that the RSPCA, once they get these so called 'police powers' will start taking animals from people regardless! Im suprised at that because i would have thought the RSPCA would have no issue with animals being kept as pets if theyre given a good caring home, which lets face it 95% of them are.

Again, thats just how im reading it!

[2E]

The RSPCA have ALWAYS been against the keeping of Exotic Animals.. for good reasons too, alot of the exotic animals come over as wild caught, they aren't housed properly, or kept outside and this country does not have the right climate for them.:reading

although im sure you treat your snakes and lizards etc well, alot of people dont, ive seen snakes kept in plastic stationary boxes, ive seen lizards kept in fish tanks... and to be honest... i dont think thats right at all.:shooter

Cats are fine as companion animals, they roam free during the day, come to be fed at numerous times, and they have 100% freedom...:grin2

Whats to stop your cat not coming back?:laughboun

Nothing.:grin2

Dogs are pretty much the same, except more loyal than cats as they become protective of their property... which includes you.:grin1
Well.. with the exception of a few lazy greyhounds (not hinting anything Harrie:grin2 )

The RSPCA will never try to ban dogs, dogs are part of security for nearly everything, sniffing out bombs by the army, guard dogs by security guards, attack dogs for the police force.:grin3


And yes, your right, thousands of animals are put down every month because theres no homes for them... but that has significally changed since the RSPCA began... it has dropped significantly, i dont have the figures but i know it is a hell of alot than when the RSPCA wasnt established! :clap I know quite a few people who have made space in their garden and converted space into kennels to keep cats and dogs, one lady in tilbury converted her garage into a cats playground, and she is now the Thurrock HQ for Cats Protection..

And yes before you ask, she DOES fund the RSPCA.:rockon

:grin2 I think whoever told you this info on the RSPCA either really dislikes them, perhaps they had an animal taken?? Or is just plain incorrect.:laugh2

[Webby]

Does this mean I can't keep my T-Rex?

We have cleaned him up real well now and he is no longer smelly so is therefore no longer ex-stinked. [spelling]

[The Guvnor]

The RSPCA have ALWAYS been against the keeping of Exotic Animals.. for good reasons too, alot of the exotic animals come over as wild caught, they aren't housed properly, or kept outside and this country does not have the right climate for them.:reading

although im sure you treat your snakes and lizards etc well, alot of people dont, ive seen snakes kept in plastic stationary boxes, ive seen lizards kept in fish tanks... and to be honest... i dont think thats right at all.:shooter

Cats are fine as companion animals, they roam free during the day, come to be fed at numerous times, and they have 100% freedom...:grin2

Whats to stop your cat not coming back?:laughboun

Nothing.:grin2

Dogs are pretty much the same, except more loyal than cats as they become protective of their property... which includes you.:grin1
Well.. with the exception of a few lazy greyhounds (not hinting anything Harrie:grin2 )

The RSPCA will never try to ban dogs, dogs are part of security for nearly everything, sniffing out bombs by the army, guard dogs by security guards, attack dogs for the police force.:grin3


And yes, your right, thousands of animals are put down every month because theres no homes for them... but that has significally changed since the RSPCA began... it has dropped significantly, i dont have the figures but i know it is a hell of alot than when the RSPCA wasnt established! :clap I know quite a few people who have made space in their garden and converted space into kennels to keep cats and dogs, one lady in tilbury converted her garage into a cats playground, and she is now the Thurrock HQ for Cats Protection..

And yes before you ask, she DOES fund the RSPCA.:rockon

:grin2 I think whoever told you this info on the RSPCA either really dislikes them, perhaps they had an animal taken?? Or is just plain incorrect.:laugh2


:clap :clap :clap :clap

[DJMCJERICO]

I don't want to fall out with people over this but I've opened up a can of worms and am going to have my say.

I don't think all rspca officers are like this, but the thought of the minority of antis working for them getting the powers of entry without an independent body authorising it scares the hell outer me.

The RSPCA have ALWAYS been against the keeping of Exotic Animals..

Well there’s your answerer why they will not be welcome in my house.


for good reasons too, alot of the exotic animals come over as wild caught,
I agree a few are but not as many as you would think, with reptiles not needing quarantine if an animal is not available here then it is normally possible to get one within Europe, like I did last march when I went to Germany to pick up a particular snake.
Although some are needed to be brought in to private breeders to keep blood lines strong, I don't think they should be on general sale, I’ve helped and rescued quite a few animals that were brought in and not settled into captivity well and that needed extra attention for feeding etc, although I think you are getting a little confused with wild caught and captive farmed.

they aren't housed properly
You mean with in-experienced owners or in general?

or kept outside and this country does not have the right climate for them.
Some reptiles can be kept outside at certain times of the year, granted normally during the warmer month, mostly European herps but some others can be as well, infact lizards like the Eyed Lizards can benefit from it.
Look at Chelonia, especially after the bloody turtle craze, there are turtles thriving in local ponds.

although I’m sure you treat your snakes and lizards etc well, alot of people dont,
I wouldn't be publicly questioning the rspca practices if I didn't.

I’ve seen snakes kept in plastic stationary boxes, ive seen lizards kept in fish tanks... and to be honest... i dont think thats right at all.

I'm not sure what you mean by stationary box's, but a lot of snakes do very well in racking systems, Although I'm talking box's big enough for the snake to live in, not hidden under the bed from parents.
I have some royal pythons kept in a racking system and as a shy animal they thrive in them, in the wind they would only venture out for food and breeding and then live in close quarters, Although my racking system is not the type of thing you would associate with a stationary box, they are about 3ft long and about 20" wide, temperature is provided by heat cable routed into the shelf and controlled via a thermostat and to keep an eye on temps I have digital thermometers, The are ventilated to give good air circulation and no snake is kept in a rack that would prevent the snake from stretching the full length of its body.

Fish tanks I personally don't like, they provide no security for the animal to escape its surroundings although reptiles were kept successfully in these before vivariums where available.

Cats are fine as companion animals, they roam free during the day, come to be fed at numerous times, and they have 100% freedom...

Cats are probably the only animal I'm not a fan of, an introduced animal that kills for fun, but people are entitled to keep them and I wouldn't harm one.


Whats to stop your cat not coming back?

Nothing.


Wrong, the lonely old lady down the road with 17 cats they keeps feeding yours fresh seafood



The RSPCA will never try to ban dogs, dogs are part of security for nearly everything, sniffing out bombs by the army, guard dogs by security guards, attack dogs for the police force.
The rspca will never try to ban cats or dogs because they will loose support from the whole country



And yes, your right, thousands of animals are put down every month because there’s no homes for them... but that has significally changed since the RSPCA began... it has dropped significantly, i dont have the figures but i know it is a hell of alot than when the RSPCA wasnt established! I know quite a few people who have made space in their garden and converted space into kennels to keep cats and dogs, one lady in tilbury converted her garage into a cats playground, and she is now the Thurrock HQ for Cats Protection..


Whats to stop your cat not coming back?

Nothing.


I know quite a few people who have made space in their garden and converted space into kennels

:grin1

If the rspca think you are not looking after an animal properly they will take it away to give it a better life, or kill it if a home can't be found!

Why Kill them, surely if they can afford £16million headquarters they can afford to keep cats and dogs in food and lodging, Especially as they have an annual budget of £70million (2002)


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/07/24/nrspca124.xml

Mind you it must go quick if they can afford to pay
Personel ffundraising manager for
West Sussex £44,500 per annum plus benefits
And
Head of animal rehoming and branch support (http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/browse/charities/animal/vacancy-1259785.html)
West Sussex £42,400 per annum plus benefits

The director general is on 90k
http://www.walk-wales.org.uk/RSPCAnewhead.htm




I think whoever told you this info on the RSPCA either really dislikes them, perhaps they had an animal taken?? Or is just plain incorrect.

It’s not a someone who told me, it’s goes deeper than that, you already know about focus (if you looked) also have a look at the http://www.f-b-h.co.uk/ (http://www.f-b-h.co.uk/) in fact just search google.


Like I said above, I know it’s not everyone in the rspca and I don’t mean to cause offence to anybody here but there are people in the company that are there for alteria motives.

Tooey I know like me you love animals and I hope you are not one of the minor few that I’m talking about, If you do get a job in the rspca and need advice you are welcome to contact me, I don’t claim to be an expert but in most cases when it comes to reptiles I know what I’m talking about, I’d rather this than that failed reptile keeper, self proclaimed expert and rspca go to guy for reptiles anti Clifford Warwick get involved.


Excuse the spelling and if the above don’t make sense, I’ve now been up over 21 hours ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[The Guvnor]

Firstly..... how many RSPCA officers do you know ?

If you look after your animals correctly WHY would you have a problem with them being inspected by the RSPCA ?

If there is no problem then there is nothing to worry about surely ?




Any chance you can answer my questions ? You seem to have overlooked them !:grin2

[DJMCJERICO]

Firstly..... how many RSPCA officers do you know ?Personally I don't know any now.

If you look after your animals correctly WHY would you have a problem with them being inspected by the RSPCA ? See Tooeys post for that answer:

The RSPCA have ALWAYS been against the keeping of Exotic Animals..


If there is no problem then there is nothing to worry about surely ?
I have nothing to worry about, I wouldn't be posting about the rspca if I did.

Surely you can see why I would not be happy about it, It's like letting a vegetarian do a health inspection on a butchers!


No offence there to vegetatiansx

[2E]

I don't want to fall out with people over this but I've opened up a can of worms and am going to have my say.


I agree a few are but not as many as you would think, with reptiles not needing quarantine if an animal is not available here then it is normally possible to get one within Europe, like I did last march when I went to Germany to pick up a particular snake.
Although some are needed to be brought in to private breeders to keep blood lines strong, I don't think they should be on general sale, I’ve helped and rescued quite a few animals that were brought in and not settled into captivity well and that needed extra attention for feeding etc, although I think you are getting a little confused with wild caught and captive farmed.

Im not getting confused at all.. Ive just completed a college course in animal care so i do know my stuff.
im not against the keeping of exotic animals at all, i think its great that people are saving these kind of animals from the brink of extinction (which alot of reptiles are). Alot of animals should not be on general sale like you said, that i do agree with, where it is also said to get this particular snake you probably could of got it in this country, if you knew the right people... which is why the RSPCA are mainly against exotic pet keeping..

Correct me if im wrong but you do need a license do you not to keep exotic animals? And also to bring that snake back i trust you had an import license. :reading




You mean with in-experienced owners or in general?

Both! I was given a figure the other day of how many reptiles and lizards are seized in RSPCA sweeps over the country, the figure was in thousands, and alot of these were dangerous reptiles..


Some reptiles can be kept outside at certain times of the year, granted normally during the warmer month, mostly European herps but some others can be as well, infact lizards like the Eyed Lizards can benefit from it.
Look at Chelonia, especially after the bloody turtle craze, there are turtles thriving in local ponds.

During warmer months yes, but alot of people assume (i used to know a few people) that lizards/snakes/reptiles are hardy animals that will survive through the months regardless of weather, when in reality the reptiles are only used to rainforest or desert conditions.

I'm not sure what you mean by stationary box's, but a lot of snakes do very well in racking systems, Although I'm talking box's big enough for the snake to live in, not hidden under the bed from parents.
I have some royal pythons kept in a racking system and as a shy animal they thrive in them, in the wind they would only venture out for food and breeding and then live in close quarters, Although my racking system is not the type of thing you would associate with a stationary box, they are about 3ft long and about 20" wide, temperature is provided by heat cable routed into the shelf and controlled via a thermostat and to keep an eye on temps I have digital thermometers, The are ventilated to give good air circulation and no snake is kept in a rack that would prevent the snake from stretching the full length of its body.

I had a snake at one point in time, it was a white rat snake with a hunchback (no joke) called Quasi (Yes there is a pun:grin2 ) Now when i got it, i was told that its best to get a vivarium, but if i couldnt afford it, then normal plastic (with vents) stationary boxes bought in bulk from Staples would be fine. Is this right? No.

Unfortunately the snake died after a fight with another corn snake and that was the end of that chapter of my life.:grin3

Another question, when a snakes dying/in pain what do you do??:reading

Because some people i know, put their snakes in the freezer, so that they dont feel themselves dying, this of course, isnt true, the snakes actually in more pain, and musters its strength up to escape, until it collapses and dies restlessly.:shooter

Fish tanks I personally don't like, they provide no security for the animal to escape its surroundings although reptiles were kept successfully in these before vivariums where available.

Yet alot of people still use them, amateur Reptile keepers, probably with no license, storing them like they are at petshops.. which is utterly ridiculous.



Cats are probably the only animal I'm not a fan of, an introduced animal that kills for fun, but people are entitled to keep them and I wouldn't harm one.

Killing for fun?? i think you mean natural instinct my friend, same with a very very trained guarddog, cats think they own the garden, the house, and most of the time, that favourite spot on your chair.:laugh1

Cats see mice in the house, the hunt them, the same as a dog does an intruder, unfortunately, cats will only hunt things smaller than them.. which is where the phrase 'Scaredy Cat' comes from.:grin1


Wrong, the lonely old lady down the road with 17 cats they keeps feeding yours fresh seafood

And unless licensed for that many cats under one roof (such as the lady in tilbury) then she will have those cats taken off her... if they arent being cared for properly..

There is an old law, which states you can only have a certain amount of cats and/or dogs until you are counted as a kennels/catterry and thus have to pay for such.

The rspca will never try to ban cats or dogs because they will loose support from the whole country

The RSPCA will never try to ban cats or dogs because they arent stupid, cats and dogs are the most common animal in this country.
If they banned them from companion animals can you imagine what would happen, their would be Rabies outbursts, inbreeding all over the country, and mongrel animals all across britain.:laughboun


If the rspca think you are not looking after an animal properly they will take it away to give it a better life, or kill it if a home can't be found!

Why Kill them, surely if they can afford £16million headquarters they can afford to keep cats and dogs in food and lodging, Especially as they have an annual budget of £70million (2002)


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/07/24/nrspca124.xml

Mind you it must go quick if they can afford to pay
Personel ffundraising manager for
West Sussex £44,500 per annum plus benefits
And
Head of animal rehoming and branch support (http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/browse/charities/animal/vacancy-1259785.html)
West Sussex £42,400 per annum plus benefits

The director general is on 90k
http://www.walk-wales.org.uk/RSPCAnewhead.htm


Maybe they only get paid so much is because of the risks that they are threatened to be placed under.. how did you put it..

Tooey I am not worried about an rspca inspector coming to my house, as soon as they insinuate that they have police powers they will be arrested by me under common law and reasonable force will be used where possible, they should be worried about coming to me, then the police can inspect my property with and independent body.

The RSPCA do NOT receive government funding, unlike alot of the other animal groups, they never have, and probably never will...


It’s not a someone who told me, it’s goes deeper than that, you already know about focus (if you looked) also have a look at the http://www.f-b-h.co.uk/ (http://www.f-b-h.co.uk/) in fact just search google.


Like I said above, I know it’s not everyone in the rspca and I don’t mean to cause offence to anybody here but there are people in the company that are there for alteria motives.

Tooey I know like me you love animals and I hope you are not one of the minor few that I’m talking about, If you do get a job in the rspca and need advice you are welcome to contact me, I don’t claim to be an expert but in most cases when it comes to reptiles I know what I’m talking about, I’d rather this than that failed reptile keeper, self proclaimed expert and rspca go to guy for reptiles anti Clifford Warwick get involved.

Appreciated, and yes there are some people that dont like animals altogether and some might of managed to get a job in the rspca.. but i really dont see what your problem is, you sound like you look after your animals properly, keep it that way and you wont get a knock on your door...:clap If i get a job, i intend on doing that job, and if that involves breaking down somebodys door to take away a few wild exotic pets they've illegally brought into this country then so be it, thats the job... and its got to be done my friend. :grin3

NB: No offence or personal offence meant to anyone. :grin2

[DJMCJERICO]

Im not getting confused at all.. Ive just completed a college course in animal care so i do know my stuff.

You have a year or so learning about general animal care, not particualy exotics and cannot even think you know more than someone with hands on experiance.


im not against the keeping of exotic animals at all, i think its great that people are saving these kind of animals from the brink of extinction (which alot of reptiles are). Alot of animals should not be on general sale like you said, that i do agree with

I said wc animals should only be available to expericanced keepers.

where it is also said to get this particular snake you probably could of got it in this country, if you knew the right people... which is why the RSPCA are mainly against exotic pet keeping..
I could of got it in this country no problem at all, but as at the time not many people were breeding them or they were being imported from a couple of sources in the states, to keep the bloodline strong and to reduce the chance on inbreeding I got mine from a breeder from Sweden.


Correct me if im wrong but you do need a license do you not to keep exotic animals? And also to bring that snake back i trust you had an import license. :reading

No you do not need a licence to keep exotic reptiles in this country, unless of course they are on the dwaa, Only venemous snakes and aligators and crocs require a licence and maybe the komodo due to obvious reasons.
There is no need for an import licence, As long as I have the required cities paperwork then that is all that I need, In the case of that particular snake it was a reciept from the breeder stating that the animal was captive bread, and showing it's age, genetics and the address of where it was born.






Both! I was given a figure the other day of how many reptiles and lizards are seized in RSPCA sweeps over the country, the figure was in thousands, and alot of these were dangerous reptiles..

Some reptiles that you would conisder dangerous would not be what I would, I would not expect you to go near a 8ft boa constricter as you are not experianced with them, Where as I have sat watching tv with one of my lap.


The figures your looking for are:

In the UK today there are:
6.5 million companion dogs

There are:
5 million companion reptiles

In 2003 the RSPCA rescued or re-homed:
25,000 dogs

In 2003 the RSPCA rescued or re-homed:
2,500 exotics (approximately 1,000 were reptiles)

So if you look at the average there is far more dogs being mistreated than exotics but there is not much difference to the amount in captivity, So why are the rspca picking on exotics? Because they are against the keeping of them!

Bet they only told you the bottom bit!




During warmer months yes, but alot of people assume (i used to know a few people) that lizards/snakes/reptiles are hardy animals that will survive through the months regardless of weather, when in reality the reptiles are only used to rainforest or desert conditions.

No they are not, a lot of reptiles live in towns and cities not "only rainforest and desserts".




I had a snake at one point in time, it was a white rat snake with a hunchback (no joke) called Quasi (Yes there is a pun:grin2 ) Now when i got it, i was told that its best to get a vivarium, but if i couldnt afford it, then normal plastic (with vents) stationary boxes bought in bulk from Staples would be fine. Is this right? No.

You could do if you know what you are doing and could provide the correct set-up.
The only difference between a storage box is the box has plastic sides and front instead of wooden sides and a glass front, tubs are ideal for hatchling snakes as they feel insecure in vivariums and can go off their food.
Although size can be an issue.
If you are buying any animal you should research it's needs and have it's equipment set up in advace to check it is right (pref a week), not ask someone in the pet shop while you are buying it, remember not everyone who works in a shop knows everything that they sell, they are only there for work.

Unfortunately the snake died after a fight with another corn snake and that was the end of that chapter of my life.:grin3

Some re-search should of been done here, you should not keep snakes together with the exception of breeding purposes, a lot of snakes are canibles and two males snakes will fight to attain dominance, breeding rights to a female or to defend his territory.

You should deffinatley not mix species, although corn and rats snakes are similure you still should not do it.

What kind of rat snake was it?

Another question, when a snakes dying/in pain what do you do??:reading

Same as any other animal, call a vet, if possible call a specilist for the animal that needs attention, you should find a suitable vet before buying the pet.

Because some people i know, put their snakes in the freezer, so that they dont feel themselves dying, this of course, isnt true, the snakes actually in more pain, and musters its strength up to escape, until it collapses and dies restlessly.:shooter

Actually the snake (or any animal for that matter) would try and get out, thier body would slow down and they would die of hypothermia (sp).
They will not die pain free and it is a nasty way to kill something.





Yet alot of people still use them, amateur Reptile keepers, probably with no license, storing them like they are at petshops.. which is utterly ridiculous.


Like I said I don't like them but they have been used since the 70's and reptiles do well in them, just because you or I don't like them does not make them wrong.




Killing for fun?? i think you mean natural instinct my friend, same with a very very trained guarddog, cats think they own the garden, the house, and most of the time, that favourite spot on your chair.:laugh1

Cats see mice in the house, the hunt them, the same as a dog does an intruder, unfortunately, cats will only hunt things smaller than them.. which is where the phrase 'Scaredy Cat' comes from.:grin1


A bit off topic this one, but If I was to allow my snake to slither around eating cats (a natural instinct) someone would sure have something to say about that, although snakes and cats are both imported animals.






And unless licensed for that many cats under one roof (such as the lady in tilbury) then she will have those cats taken off her... if they arent being cared for properly..

You do not need a licence for cats, no mtter how many there are.



There is an old law, which states you can only have a certain amount of cats and/or dogs until you are counted as a kennels/catterry and thus have to pay for such.

See above!



The RSPCA will never try to ban cats or dogs because they arent stupid, cats and dogs are the most common animal in this country.
If they banned them from companion animals can you imagine what would happen, their would be Rabies outbursts, inbreeding all over the country, and mongrel animals all across britain.:laughboun


The rspca could not ban anybody from keeping any animal, they do not have the power, but if they tried to point politicans into banning cats or dogs nobody would support the rspca anymore and they would be out on their ear!




Maybe they only get paid so much is because of the risks that they are threatened to be placed under.. how did you put it..


The rspca do not have the power to enter my house, the only person who does is the police, if a warrent is issued for the inspection of my animals only the police officers name is on the warrent, he has the option to take alone a mutual expert, so unless I agree to the rspca officer being present they are tresspassing and will be arrested by me under common law and reasonable force will be used to keep them there until a police presents.
I will not drop the charges and will push so that the offending rspca officer is charged to the full extent of the law!


The RSPCA do NOT receive government funding, unlike alot of the other animal groups, they never have, and probably never will...

Good job, maybe the rspca should stay away for goverment, after all a charity is not allowed to be involved with politcs. (I cant find the referance atm)


Appreciated, and yes there are some people that dont like animals altogether and some might of managed to get a job in the rspca.. but i really dont see what your problem is

My problem is that these people will get the power to enter a house without any due reason, once they have found out I keep reptiles they can come back to me as many times as they want as there will be no independent body to answere to, they could turn up every day at 3am and I could do sod all about it.


, you sound like you look after your animals properly, keep it that way and you wont get a knock on your door...:clap
I could fall out with my neighbour, they ring up and say I just fed thier boxer to a corn snake and the rspca will be round like a shot, wouldn't bother me though, they wouldn't get in lol
Although yea I do look after my animal, their my babys!

Continues below:

[DJMCJERICO]

If i get a job, i intend on doing that job, and if that involves breaking down somebodys door to take away a few wild exotic pets they've illegally brought into this country then so be it, thats the job... and its got to be done my friend. :grin3

But how do you know they are illegaly brought into the country?

You have no right kicking someones door down, you will have the same power as every other citizen: The power of citizens arrest, thats it, thats all you get. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmenvfru/uc683-i/uc68302.htm Go to question 61 onwards.

If an rspca officer kicked my door down then I would treat it the same as I said above, although the charges would then be breaking and entering!
Also that would not be your job, if they have been illigaly into the country that would be between defra, the police etc.....


NB: No offence or personal offence meant to anyone. :grin2



Likewise dude, although we all have different opinions it's and interesting topic :grin2

[The Guvnor]

Well....this sounds like a total waste of time answering anymore........everyone has an opinion......just that some try to force onto other people !

And after reading your post DJ.......it seems there is no-one else on this planet with more knowledge than yourself ! So you are obviously right !

Im gettin bored know:grin2

[DJMCJERICO]

All I've done is answer the questions put to me, bottom line if you don't think the rspca should be able to investigate you, have the powers of entry into your private dwelling and be able to prosecute you for doing what THEY think is wrong without having to answer to anybody but themselves then sign the petition.

Myself, I see it as a conflict of interest, Some of you may remember when the police were allowed to do this in the 80's (I think it was) and what a mess that was. :grin2

[SDM]

I think there should be some investigating body that looks into people that mistreat Bikes :grin2 :grin2 ..............animals ffs

[2E]

You have a year or so learning about general animal care, not particualy exotics and cannot even think you know more than someone with hands on experiance.

Although that came across to me as awfully rude, i will overlook it.

I did not say i had particular exotics experience, and this post isnt (contrary to belief! :laugh2 ) About Exotic animals.

This post is about the RSPCA which deal with all types of animals it has managed to turn into a post about how the RSPCA are prejudice in ways against exotic pet keepers.


I could of got it in this country no problem at all, but as at the time not many people were breeding them or they were being imported from a couple of sources in the states, to keep the bloodline strong and to reduce the chance on inbreeding I got mine from a breeder from Sweden.

I assume the swedish breeder was at this event in germany?

Out of interest, how much did it cost you? and what snake was it?




No you do not need a licence to keep exotic reptiles in this country, unless of course they are on the dwaa, Only venemous snakes and aligators and crocs require a licence and maybe the komodo due to obvious reasons.
There is no need for an import licence, As long as I have the required cities paperwork then that is all that I need, In the case of that particular snake it was a reciept from the breeder stating that the animal was captive bread, and showing it's age, genetics and the address of where it was born.

Correct, i forgot about the cities paperwork, and komodo dragons... thats a tricky one.. as i know of some people with them that got them from the reptile place next to Pegasus Birds in west horndon... but they are zoo animals so i believe they count as such... worth looking into.:reading



Some reptiles that you would conisder dangerous would not be what I would, I would not expect you to go near a 8ft boa constricter as you are not experianced with them, Where as I have sat watching tv with one of my lap.

At my college i held (with about five others thats how big this snake was) a severely overweight (the snakes now on a strict feeding schedule) boa constrictor so know i do not see them as dangerous.
Dangerous in my eyes are snakes such as Cobras, King Snakes (The one the milk snake imitates i believe its a king), Reticulated python, anacondas, and such others.

If you know the right people, you can get hold of ANY of these snakes.. but you could bet your life that most of them will be wild caught, illegally imported, and fanged.


The figures your looking for are:

In the UK today there are:
6.5 million companion dogs

There are:
5 million companion reptiles

In 2003 the RSPCA rescued or re-homed:
25,000 dogs

In 2003 the RSPCA rescued or re-homed:
2,500 exotics (approximately 1,000 were reptiles)

So if you look at the average there is far more dogs being mistreated than exotics but there is not much difference to the amount in captivity, So why are the rspca picking on exotics? Because they are against the keeping of them!

Of course theres going to be more dogs! Theres not that MANY reptiles/exotics in this country in the first place,mostly because people are scared of them or dislike them as pets... i mean its not the first choice at a petshop is it?? hmmm puppy or python...:grin1 Me i wouldnt mind the snake, easy to feed, easy to keep, doesent poop over the carpet everywhere, and quiet at night times... what could be better??? but most families dont see it that way!

2,500 exotics so if you take that figure, and estimate how many reptiles etc in the country, youll probably find the rspca rescuing a high amount of them.


No they are not, a lot of reptiles live in towns and cities not "only rainforest and desserts".

They live in towns/cities because of civilisation, they came down from the forests/jungle... and if i found one living in my dessert i think id sue the restaurant!:laugh1


You could do if you know what you are doing and could provide the correct set-up.
The only difference between a storage box is the box has plastic sides and front instead of wooden sides and a glass front, tubs are ideal for hatchling snakes as they feel insecure in vivariums and can go off their food.
Although size can be an issue.
If you are buying any animal you should research it's needs and have it's equipment set up in advace to check it is right (pref a week), not ask someone in the pet shop while you are buying it, remember not everyone who works in a shop knows everything that they sell, they are only there for work.

Yes i agree, they are great for baby snakes as they provide enough room without giving them too much room, but im talking about full grown snakes.... i dont think its ideal as well..

Racking systems work like a stack of vivariums (which some of my friends use, they are very effective) I see people when i walked through the door they had a racking system in the hallway, they told me they had new snakes, and proceded to open up a drawer to show snakes in every drawer in the rack.. the thing that got me is that these racks looked more like something from an office with one UV light going over the top of each shelve.


Some re-search should of been done here, you should not keep snakes together with the exception of breeding purposes, a lot of snakes are canibles and two males snakes will fight to attain dominance, breeding rights to a female or to defend his territory.

You should deffinatley not mix species, although corn and rats snakes are similure you still should not do it.

What kind of rat snake was it?

Room was scarce, so the snakes were introduced and got on fine, but for some reason, something went wrong.

It was a California Rat Snake.


Same as any other animal, call a vet, if possible call a specilist for the animal that needs attention, you should find a suitable vet before buying the pet.

A key problem with snakes/reptiles i think youll agree, the vet fees are astronomical and its hard to find a specialist vet anyway.


Actually the snake (or any animal for that matter) would try and get out, thier body would slow down and they would die of hypothermia (sp).
They will not die pain free and it is a nasty way to kill something.

Is that not what i said??:shooter



Like I said I don't like them but they have been used since the 70's and reptiles do well in them, just because you or I don't like them does not make them wrong.

But then again, nowadays we have much better facilities then in the 70's... so its time to update i think.


A bit off topic this one, but If I was to allow my snake to slither around eating cats (a natural instinct) someone would sure have something to say about that, although snakes and cats are both imported animals.

Yes they would because Cats are pets, whereas birds and mice are pests, theres a difference.:grin1


You do not need a licence for cats, no mtter how many there are.

hmmm i seem to remember something about a certain amount of cats/dogs and you become a cattery/kennel... i will also look into it..

However the more cats someone has the more visits then tend to get from health inspectors and/or the RSPCA for hygienic reasons.

Fans of 'Life Of Grime' will know what i mean.


The rspca could not ban anybody from keeping any animal, they do not have the power, but if they tried to point politicans into banning cats or dogs nobody would support the rspca anymore and they would be out on their ear!

They wouldnt try it, for the reasons you stated and because the politicians would never forward it, ask yourself, where would the police be without sniffer dogs, where would the army be without bomb dogs, and how many top security sites would be breached without security dogs?

Ban them??? Not a chance!





The rspca do not have the power to enter my house, the only person who does is the police, if a warrent is issued for the inspection of my animals only the police officers name is on the warrent, he has the option to take alone a mutual expert, so unless I agree to the rspca officer being present they are tresspassing and will be arrested by me under common law and reasonable force will be used to keep them there until a police presents.
I will not drop the charges and will push so that the offending rspca officer is charged to the full extent of the law!

Isnt getting the power to enter your house what this post is all about, so if they get this power, then theres nothing you can do about it, if you attempt to stop them should they have suitable warrant/paperwork (law side of things is not my forte!) you will be charged, not them.

Continued below..

[2E]

Good job, maybe the rspca should stay away for goverment, after all a charity is not allowed to be involved with politcs. (I cant find the referance atm)

I too have heard about that, which is why i never understood why the rspca are always saying 'we never get government funding'?? Nor does any charity!!! Its obviously something to draw generous people who feel sorry for the rspca in.


My problem is that these people will get the power to enter a house without any due reason, once they have found out I keep reptiles they can come back to me as many times as they want as there will be no independent body to answere to, they could turn up every day at 3am and I could do sod all about it.

Yes you can do something about it, as far as i know they need to have relevant paperwork (in the form of a warrant if they are searching your property) these can be contracts signed by you allowing them access to your house, if your house is council it probably be signed by the council... (less hassle for them to get tenants to sign)

Once they have finished the search/inspection then they sign it off, once signed off they need ANOTHER contract or warrant to inspect the house, if they come back to you again you can refuse access and if they come into your house after refusing access that is trespassing and you should call the police... if they dont enter your house but continue to visit, thats called harrassment, call the police.


I could fall out with my neighbour, they ring up and say I just fed thier boxer to a corn snake and the rspca will be round like a shot, wouldn't bother me though, they wouldn't get in lol
Although yea I do look after my animal, their my babys!

Yeah.. a boxer.. to a corn snake, i think they might see through that one though! :grin2 Boxer to boa constrictor maybe...

Also if they came knocking just get out your biggest most scariest looking snake, put it around your shoulders and answer the door, chances are they wont come in...:grin1

But how do you know they are illegaly brought into the country?

You have no right kicking someones door down, you will have the same power as every other citizen: The power of citizens arrest, thats it, thats all you get. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmenvfru/uc683-i/uc68302.htm Go to question 61 onwards.

If an rspca officer kicked my door down then I would treat it the same as I said above, although the charges would then be breaking and entering!
Also that would not be your job, if they have been illigaly into the country that would be between defra, the police etc.....



Likewise dude, although we all have different opinions it's and interesting topic :grin2

Dude have you not read your own post!!! :clap

You said if the RSPCA got the same power as police... then they WOULD be able to kick your door down!!! :D

And they know they are illegally brought into this country as they will have a strong case on it before taking action, the RSPCA do not go out to cases like that on a whim....:grin1

[DJMCJERICO]

Although that came across to me as awfully rude, i will overlook it.

Gee thanks Mr, that’s wasn’t meant to come over rude, it was a fact!

I did not say i had particular exotics experience, and this post isnt (contrary to belief! ) About Exotic animals.

This post is about the RSPCA which deal with all types of animals it has managed to turn into a post about how the RSPCA are prejudice in ways against exotic pet keepers.

Because the rspca are against the keeping of exotic pets, do not know enough about them to judge how they are being kept and want to power to enter someone’s home.



I assume the swedish breeder was at this event in germany?

No the breeder gave the snake a train ticket and packed lunch and sent him to Germany with a place card around his neck saying “FAO djmcjerico” lol :D

Out of interest, how much did it cost you? and what snake was it?

How much the snake cost me is irrelevant to this thread and none of your business, but at the time it was bought we are talking figures.
It’s was a Burmese python morph.





Correct, i forgot about the cities paperwork

You forgot or just threw a wild guess?

, and komodo dragons... thats a tricky one.. as i know of some people with them that got them from the reptile place next to Pegasus Birds in west horndon... but they are zoo animals so i believe they count as such... worth looking into.

Do I really need to go into the ins and outs about how impossible it would be for a reptile shop to import one of the most protected animals in the world, next you will be telling me you know people who have bought a Panda from pet smart!




At my college i held (with about five others thats how big this snake was) a severely overweight (the snakes now on a strict feeding schedule) boa constrictor so know i do not see them as dangerous.

tbc

[DJMCJERICO]

In the wrong hands they are dangerous, the average length for a common boa constrictor is about 9ft, you could pick one up on your own if you know what you are doing but should have at least another person with you in case of trouble.

Dangerous in my eyes are snakes such as Cobras, King Snakes (The one the milk snake imitates i believe its a king), Reticulated python, anacondas, and such others.
A king snake is a harmless colubrid, a good snake for a beginner to reptiles; the harmless milk snake imitates the venomous coral snake.

If you know the right people, you can get hold of ANY of these snakes.. but you could bet your life that most of them will be wild caught, illegally imported, and fanged.

If you know the right people you can buy yourself an ak47 walk into McDonalds and walk out of a big mac without paying.

Of course people who illegally own venomous snakes will own wild caught, no licensed breeder or specialist shop would be stupid enough to provide a venomous snake to an unlicensed person.


Of course theres going to be more dogs! Theres not that MANY reptiles/exotics in this country in the first place,mostly because people are scared of them or dislike them as pets... i mean its not the first choice at a petshop is it?? hmmm puppy or python... Me i wouldnt mind the snake, easy to feed, easy to keep, doesent poop over the carpet everywhere, and quiet at night times... what could be better??? but most families dont see it that way!

2,500 exotics so if you take that figure, and estimate how many reptiles etc in the country, youll probably find the rspca rescuing a high amount of them.

Did you actually read my post?

In the UK today there are:
6.5 million companion dogs
In 2003 the RSPCA rescued or re-homed:
25,000 dogs.

There are:
5 million companion reptiles
In 2003 the RSPCA rescued or re-homed:
2,500 exotics (approximately 1,000 were reptiles)

Although there are only 1.5 million dogs than there are exotics pets in this country ten times more dogs are rescued.

You don’t need to be genius to work out the average!


tbc

[DJMCJERICO]

They live in towns/cities because of civilisation, they came down from the forests/jungle... and if i found one living in my dessert i think id sue the restaurant!

What’s a corn snakes habitat, the name gives you a clue that it doesn’t live in the tea fields of china.



Yes i agree, they are great for baby snakes as they provide enough room without giving them too much room, but im talking about full grown snakes.... i dont think its ideal as well..

Racking systems work like a stack of vivariums (which some of my friends use, they are very effective) I see people when i walked through the door they had a racking system in the hallway, they told me they had new snakes, and proceded to open up a drawer to show snakes in every drawer in the rack.. the thing that got me is that these racks looked more like something from an office with one UV light going over the top of each shelve.

What is the difference between a box with plastic side and lid and a box with wooden sides and a glass front?
Apart from the racking box making the snake feel more secure than a sheet of glass going the length of its home.

Also uv lights should NEVER EVER EVER be used anywhere near a snake, it blinds them, imagine being 12 inches from one of these bulbs for the rest of your life and being not able to close you eyes.

Room was scarce, so the snakes were introduced and got on fine, but for some reason, something went wrong.

So you had more snakes than you could care for, so instead of providing them both with the required set-up, you just bunged them together.

It was a California Rat Snake.

Well tooey this just tells me that you did not do any research about the snake that was in your care, there is no such thing as a California rat snake, there’s a California king and many many species of rat snake, all that need different care and attention to their locality.
You didn’t even need to buy a book; you could have joined a forum or searched google.


I really cannot believe you are arguing with me about how some people cannot give the proper care to exotic animals, when you are no better than them, you didn’t even know what snake you had, how can you care for it properly, you mixed two species of snake together because you couldn’t house them both separately and one was killed.

I really don’t get how you can provide the correct heat, humidity level, heat and light cycle to an animal that you have no idea what it is.

tbc

[DJMCJERICO]

If either one of them was a king snake then it’s 90% that one of the snakes died due to cannibalism as king snakes will eat other snake.


A key problem with snakes/reptiles i think youll agree, the vet fees are astronomical and its hard to find a specialist vet anyway.

Vet fee’s are the same as every other animal, a specialist vet can be found by visiting any reptile club website or forum, There are two good vets that specialise in exotics, particularly reptiles near us, one in Rochford and one in Goodmayes.



Is that not what i said??

I was merely telling you how it was, giving you the facts.



But then again, nowadays we have much better facilities then in the 70's... so its time to update i think.

Again the only difference between a fish tank and a vivarium is that it has glass sides instead of 3 wooden sides and a glass front, if the sides are covered up with something to give the animal privacy so it does not feel threatened there is not a problem.


Yes they would because Cats are pets, whereas birds and mice are pests, there’s a difference.

Only certain birds are vermin, wood and feral pigeon and certain corvids, I very much doubt that a cat would be able to kill a rook or a pigeon, instead they kill songbirds, some protected.
Mice are protected as they are now rare, the only rodent that is not protected and on the vermin list is rats.


hmmm i seem to remember something about a certain amount of cats/dogs and you become a cattery/kennel... i will also look into it..

However the more cats someone has the more visits then tend to get from health inspectors and/or the RSPCA for hygienic reasons.

Fans of 'Life Of Grime' will know what i mean.

I agree if someone has more cats than they are able to look after then they need help for the animals sake, If someone has 20 cats and all their needs are met and there is no hygiene issue there is nothing anybody can do about it, with the exception that they are acting against a tenancy agreement.


tbc

[DJMCJERICO]

They wouldn’t try it, for the reasons you stated and because the politicians would never forward it, ask yourself, where would the police be without sniffer dogs, where would the army be without bomb dogs, and how many top security sites would be breached without security dogs?

Ban them??? Not a chance!

Like I Said.






Isnt getting the power to enter your house what this post is all about, so if they get this power, then theres nothing you can do about it, if you attempt to stop them should they have suitable warrant/paperwork (law side of things is not my forte!) you will be charged, not them.

But at the moment they don’t so if they entered my propert y without my consent they would be restrained, read their rights and the police will be called.


I too have heard about that, which is why i never understood why the rspca are always saying 'we never get government funding'?? Nor does any charity!!! Its obviously something to draw generous people who feel sorry for the rspca in

I agree.



Yes you can do something about it, as far as i know they need to have relevant paperwork (in the form of a warrant if they are searching your property) these can be contracts signed by you allowing them access to your house, if your house is council it probably be signed by the council... (less hassle for them to get tenants to sign)

At the moment a warrant is only issued to police, if the police wish the rspca to help with the search then it is between the parts involved.
Only the police officer has the right to enter the property and to seize animals

Once they have finished the search/inspection then they sign it off, once signed off they need ANOTHER contract or warrant to inspect the house, if they come back to you again you can refuse access and if they come into your house after refusing access that is trespassing and you should call the police... if they dont enter your house but continue to visit, thats called harrassment, call the police.

The trouble is if this goes through the rspca will conduct their own investigation, they will not need a warrant and if they do they issue them themselfs not through the courts, they will then seiz animals that they belive are or what they beleive are going to be kept wrongly and to conduct their own prosecutions, the only way to fight them is in court, but who can afford to fight them in court, remember they a 70million pound budget!

[DJMCJERICO]

Yeah.. a boxer.. to a corn snake, i think they might see through that one though! Boxer to boa constrictor maybe..

Even an adult boa constrictor will not be able to eat a boxer, but if the rspca want to follow it up they will.

Also if they came knocking just get out your biggest most scariest looking snake, put it around your shoulders and answer the door, chances are they wont come in...

Yea that’s sensible!



Dude have you not read your own post!!!

You said if the RSPCA got the same power as police... then they WOULD be able to kick your door down!!!


But at the moment they haven’t

And they know they are illegally brought into this country as they will have a strong case on it before taking action, the RSPCA do not go out to cases like that on a whim....

How can they collect evidence, how do they know they are there to begin with, if the police and customs don’t know what makes you think the rspca are able to collect evidence.


Tooey I don’t mean any disrespect but you have sat here over the last couple of days typing wrong and inaccurate information, you have kept a snake and gained no knowledge on it and mixed species and resulted into getting the snake killed, you have bought no relivent information to the discussion and to be honest all you have done is help my argument in why the rspca should not be allowed to enter people homes and tell them how to keep animals they know nothing about.

You agree that the rspca should not be involved in politics, you agree they are against the keeping of exotic pets and you agree the reason they will not try to ban dogs is because they will loose support.

tbc

[DJMCJERICO]

You have also shown me that if you do get a job in the rspca you will be judging the way people keep reptiles by your own beliefs and lack of knowledge, exactly why you should not be given the powers to enter some ones home and tell them how to keep and animal that you can’t even look after yourself.!:grin2

[DJMCJERICO]

Ok you do have to be an expert to work out the average :grin2

Although there are 5million reptiles being kepts as pets, all exotics are under one catagory.

But I think it is that 3.8% of all dogs in the uk were rescued where as only 0.5% of all exotic pets needed to be rescued!
When you think that there are only 24% more dogs in the uk than exotics but the amount of dogs being rescued is nearly 8 times that of exotics, people who do keep exotic animals seem to be doing a better job, although its still not good enough for either of them.

[2E]

So you had more snakes than you could care for, so instead of providing them both with the required set-up, you just bunged them together.


I wasnt caring for the snake, the snake was in the hands of a (i take it at the time) experienced keeper.


Well tooey this just tells me that you did not do any research about the snake that was in your care, there is no such thing as a California rat snake, there’s a California king and many many species of rat snake, all that need different care and attention to their locality.
You didn’t even need to buy a book; you could have joined a forum or searched google.

So what is this then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baja_California_Rat_Snake

Still no such thing as a california rat snake??

I rest my case.:grin1


I really cannot believe you are arguing with me about how some people cannot give the proper care to exotic animals, when you are no better than them, you didn’t even know what snake you had, how can you care for it properly, you mixed two species of snake together because you couldn’t house them both separately and one was killed.

I really don’t get how you can provide the correct heat, humidity level, heat and light cycle to an animal that you have no idea what it is.



I knew what snake i had by what i had been told.. it was a California Rat Snake, which is what i was told..:laugh1

Baja California Rat Snake bought from a reptile meeting in Chelmsford.:rockon

I wasnt looking after it, it was with a family friend who had other snakes, it was kept in its own vivarium but was moved for some reason i can not remember now. Therefore i trusted them to know what they were doing, the snake couldnt stay with me due to family reasons..:shooter

Like the guvnor i am bored of this debate, this topics gone way off topic, partly my fault, partly yours.. i didnt say i was an expert at exotics just either what ive been told, or what ive learnt..

Exotic pets are obviously your mastermind special topic.:reading

[2E]

Tooey I don’t mean any disrespect but you have sat here over the last couple of days typing wrong and inaccurate information, you have kept a snake and gained no knowledge on it and mixed species and resulted into getting the snake killed, you have bought no relivent information to the discussion and to be honest all you have done is help my argument in why the rspca should not be allowed to enter people homes and tell them how to keep animals they know nothing about.

You agree that the rspca should not be involved in politics, you agree they are against the keeping of exotic pets and you agree the reason they will not try to ban dogs is because they will loose support.

I would suggest getting your facts straight before you make accusations, i didnt kill the snake, the snake was with a experienced keeper, the snake got into a fight and went off food and never recovered this even happend two years ago, my memory isnt great but i know what i mean.... you say ive helped your argument, yet i see nobody posting to say they have signed the petition...

There is such an animal as a California Rat Snake, see link posted earlier, so blatantly you were wrong about that.. and if i do get a job in the RSPCA and there is something snake and reptile related its great to have someone who can give us some advice... and should i ever want another snake (hmm...) then ill make sure i come to you for the advice first.

Yes i have agreed with most of which you would say, but this post has gone severely off topic and now it has turnt into a debate over snakes and reptiles..

Im not posting anymore on this topic for fear it may well drag even further off topic than it already is.. I think its best if we leave it at that.

Makes an interesting read though

Regards,

Tooey :grin2

[DJMCJERICO]

I apologise if there is such a snake as california rat snake, although I have never come across or heard of one before, mabe it comes under a different name in the uk?


I don't claim to be an expert in exotic animals (far from it infact), I have kept reptiles for a number of years so obviously I know quite a bit about them.


Yes I think this topic has run it's course, it seem's that every question that has been put to me I have answered with fact and taken other peoples opinions on board, not clutched at straws and given the mate of mate answeres.

Mods feel free to lock this topic :grin2

[DJMCJERICO]

if i do get a job in the RSPCA and there is something snake and reptile related its great to have someone who can give us some advice... and should i ever want another snake (hmm...) then ill make sure i come to you for the advice first.



And you will welcome to it :grin2

[2E]

And you will welcome to it :grin2

Although not if i buy another 'non-existant' california rat snake.:laugh1 :rockon

[SDM]

I really hope this is the end of this thread now, it is getting so bloody boring :headshoot :headshoot :wave :wave :wave :wave

[DJMCJERICO]

Although not if i buy another 'non-existant' california rat snake.:laugh1 :rockon

I can only give advice about animals that I have kept and know that exist:grin2